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re: Cannot format Sony memory stick as NTFS Monday, July 14, 2008 at 8:32 am Posted by DEX (11819 messages posted) Dealing with Unwanted Spyware and Parasites Click Here I'm not to sure why you want to switch it over to the NTFS and take a chance of making a new door stop. Your NTFS system can see and use the Fat32 system just fine. ( USB ports items can only run so fast ,at 480 the norm) Plus you can use the device in just about any machine you pop it in Fat32 unlike if it's in the NTFS format system somethings should not be played with.. ============== Are you a wood worker ?,if so Click Here On Monday, July 14, 2008 at 2:33 am, Alan Masterman wrote: >It is possible that this is a Sony annoyance rather than a true Win2k annoyance... >but I have a Sony Vaio 2GB memory stick which is currently formatted FAT32. I'd >like to change the file system to NTFS, but when the format progress bar reaches >the end there is a pause of five or six seconds and I then get the message "Windows >could not complete the format". >I've tried running the Convert command at the DOS prompt; but in that case, I get >the message "Cannot create the elementary file structures". >Any ideas anyone? [Reply or follow-up to this message] re: Cannot format Sony memory stick as NTFS Monday, July 14, 2008 at 1:59 pm Posted by C K (6157 messages posted) If you tried this; http://www.thinktechno.com/2008/04/22/how-to-format-a-usb-drive-with-ntfs-file-system/ and it didn't work then, no, you may not be able to format it NTFS. First off, NTFS is less efficient and would waste space due to larger overhead on a small 2 gig drive, and has a structure that is not compatible with some electronic memory firmware. You have to get up to 8 gig before it makes sense to format in NTFS according to MS.. Best to contact Sony for the best answer... On Monday, July 14, 2008 at 2:33 am, Alan Masterman wrote: >It is possible that this is a Sony annoyance rather than a true Win2k annoyance... >but I have a Sony Vaio 2GB memory stick which is currently formatted FAT32. I'd >like to change the file system to NTFS, but when the format progress bar reaches >the end there is a pause of five or six seconds and I then get the message "Windows >could not complete the format". >I've tried running the Convert command at the DOS prompt; but in that case, I get >the message "Cannot create the elementary file structures". >Any ideas anyone? [Reply or follow-up to this message] re: Cannot format Sony memory stick as NTFS Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 12:33 am Posted by Alan Masterman (302 messages posted) Background: I want to measure the read-write speed of the stick relative to a couple of other sticks which were measured with NTFS format, after which it would be returned to FAT32. The question "which is more efficient, FAT32 or NTFS?" has no meaning until you know what it's going to be used for. Which is more efficient, a Rolls Royce or a Mack truck? NTFS might seem inefficient for only 2GB, but at the end of the day, if that stick needed specific attributes which only NTFS could supply, then the comparative efficiency of FAT32 would be zero. But I wasn't looking for a debate about file systems - I was hoping someone could give me the answer to a technical problem which, at first sight, defies scientific logic? And of course, we all know that Windows NEVER does that... [Reply or follow-up to this message] re: Cannot format Sony memory stick as NTFS Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 1:51 am Posted by Alan Masterman (302 messages posted) Thanks for that link, CK. I tried following the steps on an XP machine but unfortunately I still couldn't get it to offer an NTFS option, and Convert wouldn't work, either. I've heard that Sony Vaio accessories are notoriously difficult to set up properly, if you don't have the original rescue/setup disk. Maybe this is just one of those. [Reply or follow-up to this message] re: Cannot format Sony memory stick as NTFS Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 4:47 am Posted by C K (6157 messages posted) Well, normally anymore I would just let this type of response go as it wouldn't be worth my time to try and point out the errors in your response, but there are some points that are totally wrong and need some clarifications. Not for arguments sake as there really is no argument if you care to spend time studying the two file systems indepth, their design and how they totally differ. You are also blaming WIndows for something that if you did some research, you would find may just be a Sony issue as I previously stated. You said; >Background: ""I want to measure the read-write speed of the stick relative to a couple of other sticks which were measured with NTFS format, after which it would be returned to FAT32. The question "which is more efficient, FAT32 or NTFS?" has no meaning until you know what it's going to be used for."" Actually, this is untrue as seen here: http://www.ntfs.com/quest2.htm Doesn't matter what it is used for when the volume gets below a certian size. The file system can't adjust it's basic design to accomodate a smaller volume to become more efficient. NTFS has more overhead no matter the size of the volume period. > "Which is more efficient, a Rolls Royce or a Mack truck?" TOTALLY Apples and Oranges here. PLEASE!! A Rolls or a MACK? A better analogy (though not perfect) might be the difference between a freight truck versus a freight train. A truck is more efficient with smaller loads, while a train would be more efficient for larger loads. LOL, but even then, you wouldn't use a Mack truck to move one or two people would you?? How would that be more efficient? >"NTFS might seem inefficient for only 2GB, but at the end of the day, if that stick needed specific attributes which only NTFS could supply, then the comparative efficiency of FAT32 would be zero." It's the extra features and requirements that add to the overhead of the NTFS file system, and it's dependencies make it not the best choice for removeable media. I know of NO memory card or stick that requires the NTFS additions. Quite the contrary, NON recommend the NTFS file system as the internal operation, read/write method and internal maintenace are totally different than an electrical/mechanical HDD. It, (solid state memory) can be scrambled much easier if not removed correctly when formatted NTFS as opposed to FAT. NTFS CAN NOT be optimised for quick removal for multiple reasons in current operating systems. That is only available for FAT (so that you don't have to use the "safe to remove" ICON) as for one thing, the disk cache has to be disabled. Add to that the reports from others that the Sony's proprietary ways may have limited the stick (and/or many of them), to use the FAT system (possibly due to their camera requirements). Since I have never liked Sony's proprietary products, I have never used them, but know people who have and most have disgarded them due to many issues. >"But I wasn't looking for a debate about file systems - I was hoping someone could give me the answer to a technical problem which, at first sight, defies scientific logic? And of course, we all know that Windows NEVER does that..." Windows is code written by men. It can't do anything other than what it is programmed to do. That's why we in the programming and Robotics world would run "what if" scenerios constantly, along with bug reports, and change/add to the code as we need to. All code has bugs and deficiencies. That's just the way it is. No one was debating file systems that I observed. Only pointing out that NTFS isn't the best to use in this particular case and my observation from other reports around the web that Sony has programmed some memory to only use the FAT system.. You can do and think what you want. Fact still remains that if you try to format it on say, XP or other systems and it still won't work, then you would have to contact Sony to see if they might have a better answer. Most likely, it isn't a Windows problem or if it is, it may be a limitation of an old operating system/incompatibility. I use W2K and XP, and format other types of SS memory, 4 gig and up to NTFS, but only for test purposes and compatibility. I most often run into problems with secure digital media and sizes of media smaller than 4 gig in size. Manufacturers are always changing the internals and the firmware so I don't think anyone here would hazard a 100% gauranteed answer to your question... Sorry.. [Reply or follow-up to this message] re: Cannot format Sony memory stick as NTFS Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 5:28 am Posted by Alan Masterman (302 messages posted) I found a utility at the Hewlett Packard site (SoftPack SP27608), which is an extension of the Windows formatting utility and which is expressly designed to format USB memory sticks as NTFS. But it can't handle the Sony... Incidentally, the same search led me to a very elegant disc cloning utility at the Seagate site, the Seagate DiscWizard (yes, that's a c, not a k). This will not only clone your hard drive, it also allows you to create a variety of boot discs. And it's free. [Reply or follow-up to this message] re: Cannot format Sony memory stick as NTFS Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 8:17 am Posted by Alan Masterman (302 messages posted) Look, I apologise for raising the subject in the first place, but I'll just take two (or three) basic points. In this forum, since when do we defend Microsoft, and quote Microsoft as an authority? (Not that I was blaming MS for the problem anyway, as I thought I made clear in my first post). I have no option but to use NTFS in this case because, if you had read my relevant message with any attention, you would know that the object is to compare read-write speeds between the Sony stick and a couple of others which were formatted NTFS. If the comparison is to have any meaning, this stick has to be formatted NTFS, because the read/write algorithms are completely different (as you may or may not be aware). What is the criterion of "efficiency"? A big question, but clearly you can't answer it without considering "what is the objective"? The Queen of England probably wouldn't look her best motoring down Horse Guards Parade in a Mack truck. Nor would you deliver a load of bricks from the back seat of your Roller (although I did once know a farmer who carried sheep on the back seat of his Mercedes). That was the only point of the analogy. The efficiency of NTFS for floppy discs (to take a rather facile example) is obviously zero, because the MFT would take up more space than is available on the disc. Similarly, if you need a memory stick which you can carry in your pocket, and use with ANY pc anywhere, then NTFS will be less efficient than FAT32 because sooner or later you will encounter a computer which cannot read it. This was Dex's point, as I understand it, and I think it is a valid one. If it is essential that EVERY Microsoft/IBM-compatible MUST be able to read it, then within the limits of this criterion, the efficiency of NTFS will be uncertain and the efficiency of FAT32 will be 100%. On the other hand, if the the memory stick is "fixed in place", and used only for real-time instantaneous backup of critical files which may change every few minutes or even seconds (especially where batch changes are being made), then you will use NTFS for its greatly superior read/write speeds, security attributes, and recoverability. I can imagine that this would apply, purely hypothetically, to some intelligence-gathering activities, such as might occur on the stock exchange. If the info is as critical as that, then the loss of a few extra megabytes out of even just two gigabytes wouldn't worry you. What's happening to this site lately? One of the things that attracted me to this forum some years ago was, that no-one ever got flamed... times change, it seems. [Reply or follow-up to this message] re: Cannot format Sony memory stick as NTFS Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 9:43 am Posted by C K (6157 messages posted) Sorry you think you are beng flamed, but if you want me to, I have read your posts over the years and you certianly don't seem to have been one who graduated with a computer science degree.. In this case, you speak in hypothosis about subjects that have definates so we are just trying to be clear here. I read and understood your posts, which are in error so am just trying clear up misconceptions. You probably didn't read the posts where most of us from years ago told who we are, our education or experience. Mine, as anyone who knows me can tell you, is considerable. FAT was developed by Microsoft, as was NTFS so why wouldn't they know their own product or be the experts in recommending what to use for what purpose???? And finally, you didn't read my post that stated that it may not be possible to use the NTFS system on a Sony memory stick if it has been blocked in the firmware, or is physically designed to only allow the FAT file system. This I can not confirm because I don't use them, haven't tested them and don't intend to, but I have heard that others have not been able to format some models with NTFS. So, if this is the case, no amount of wishing or whining will change the fact that you won't be able to do it period. For the third time, ASK SONY, and don't bother replying!! I won't be back.. ;-) On Tuesday, July 15, 2008 at 8:17 am, Alan Masterman wrote: >Look, I apologise for raising the subject in the first place, but I'll just take >two (or three) basic points. >In this forum, since when do we defend Microsoft, and quote Microsoft as an authority? > (Not that I was blaming MS for the problem anyway, as I thought I made clear in >my first post). >I have no option but to use NTFS in this case because, if you had read my relevant >message with any attention, you would know that the object is to compare read-write >speeds between the Sony stick and a couple of others which were formatted NTFS. >If the comparison is to have any meaning, this stick has to be formatted NTFS, because >the read/write algorithms are completely different (as you may or may not be aware). >What is the criterion of "efficiency"? A big question, but clearly you can't answer >it without considering "what is the objective"? The Queen of England probably wouldn't >look her best motoring down Horse Guards Parade in a Mack truck. Nor would you deliver >a load of bricks from the back seat of your Roller (although I did once know a farmer >who carried sheep on the back seat of his Mercedes). That was the only point of >the analogy. >The efficiency of NTFS for floppy discs (to take a rather facile example) is obviously >zero, because the MFT would take up more space than is available on the disc. >Similarly, if you need a memory stick which you can carry in your pocket, and use >with ANY pc anywhere, then NTFS will be less efficient than FAT32 because sooner >or later you will encounter a computer which cannot read it. This was Dex's point, >as I understand it, and I think it is a valid one. If it is essential that EVERY >Microsoft/IBM-compatible MUST be able to read it, then within the limits of this >criterion, the efficiency of NTFS will be uncertain and the efficiency of FAT32 will >be 100%. [Reply or follow-up to this message] re: Cannot format Sony memory stick as NTFS Thursday, July 24, 2008 at 2:01 pm Posted by geek9pm (906 messages posted) Good to know. Thanks! As to the original question: Q: How do I format a USB Flash Drive to NTFS file system? A: To enable NTFS on your USB Flash Drive. Geek9pm [Reply or follow-up to this message] Tip: Use one of the [Reply or follow-up to this message] links above to add a message to this thread Search this forum Start a new thread on a different subject Report abuse of the forum Return to the Windows 2000 Discussion Forum