re: Another serious blow delivered to the validity of EULAs
Saturday, October 17, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Windows 98 Annoyances Discussion Forum
Posted by gewg_
(3932 messages posted)
sekirt wrote:
|You sure have gotten nasty from when you first started posting here. :)
|
Hey, Old Timer. Been a while since I've seen you around these parts.
Yeah, over time I've certainly become less tolerant of 4th-rate technology.
|Simply: You're wrong about some things.
|
Lately, Steve and and Arminius have been keeping me on my toes
WRT my accuracy. I can usually give examples of how I'm right.
Kiwi showed up again after a protracted absence and questioned my positions too.
|I have plenty of computing experience and I don't choose to switch to Linux
|- or Mac for that matter.
|
...and some people still drive cars with clutches.
Most folks go for the easier solution. Horses for courses.
The question in this forum is
"Should you continue to use a 10 year old OS
that wasn't so great when it was released,
and hasn't been supported for over 3 years
--and when you switch, should you give money for the replacement
(and end up with a lot of the same old flaws)?".
...then there's the "won't work on my old hardware" thing with newer M$ stuff.
With my solution: A whole flock of birds, 1 stone.
|I use IE exclusively and don't like FF.
|
Horses for courses.
Maybe you've missed my posts about how
there are many Web developer groups who are dropping support for IE6
(the latest version of that which works under Win9x).
Even the latest (NT-only) versions suck WRT standard-compliance (Acid3)
and WRT security (CERT's 2004 advisory still stands;
NONE of the holes identified have EVER been closed--in ANY version).
Using IE yourself is one thing;
advising others to do that without full instructions how to harden it[1] is derelict.
The instructions for how to get a secure Firefox or Opera install:
Install it. Use it.
[1] Even then, CERT says that it still sucks 7 ways to Sunday.
|I keep my security settings in IE even lower than recommended
|
The average user doesn't know the first thing about IE's settings.
That those even exist would be news to them.
The DEFAULT install of Firefox or Opera is FAR more secure.
|and I have never had a problem
|
Assuming that the experience of an aware, proactive user
will be representative across the spectrum of users is foolish.
Software should INSTALL in a secure mode.
|from back in 2002 when I was posting here to now with Vista.
|
Newer versions have marginally better security
--but even that pales in comparison to EVERYTHING ELSE.
|Never had a virus. Never ever - so stop scaring people.
|Not everyone gets into trouble, even if there are bad people out there.
|
To expand on my *settings* comment,
most folks use their OSes in the default out-of-the-box installed condition.
With Win9x, that default condition is simply abysmal.
Add to that that security updates for it stopped over 3 years ago.
|Unfortunately, the nature of a troubleshooting forum
|brings out only those that do get infected.
|
That's right. You speak to the audience that shows up.
|So your view is skewed.
|
...to reflect the reality that we see with Joe Average.
The method I advocate also takes less knowledge and less effort.
|And yes many computer operators
|should pack their computer back in the box because they are idiots.
|
Most users should be using a computing environment
whose out-of-the-box condition is secure by default.
Those are readily available FOR FREE.
The opposite side of that coin is often called Defective By Design.
|I don't do P2P. That seems to be the root of your article
|
Not at all. The number of security holes in Windoze is legion.
...and, after my *Most Popular Apps by Platform* link,
this thread went a bit off-track.
That item **does** speak volumes about the relative merits of the 2 ecosystems.
Actually, I started out talking about laws and FREEDOM,
specifically, EULAs and the First-Sale Doctrine.
If some corporation wants to RENT their wares,
they have to state *a time limit* in the agreement with the other party;
everything else is a SALE and once sold it's not that corp's property any more
--the corp can't tell the purchaser what he can and can't do with it.
Free Software doesn't have any of that nonsense.
Charging for ones and zeros is so last-century.
The model for the 21st Century is selling SUPPORT.
|...a primary cause of infection.
|(http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/antivirusculture).
|
I was recently in an engineering newsgroup
and one of the guys wanted to know
how he could put a presentation on a thumbdrive and get it to AutoRun.
In the non-M$ world this would be of no consequence.
In the Windoze world, this is an invitation to an infection--especially with Win9x.
The contrast between *n?x and the M$ ecosystem is night-and-day;
POSIX boxes, used in their default state just don't get pwned.
When a *n?x box DOES get infected (yes, *n?x also has stupid users),
the only thing that gets infected is THAT user's personal directory
--the OS remains unharmed.
|I am careful about what emails I open.
|I seldom get spam anyway with the filtering that email providers currently use.
|
Spam is annoying, but it isn't a security threat--on a properly designed system
(Linux guys DON'T have to worry about infections).
|[...]I used to use Spybot
|and even uninstalled that years ago because it never found anything.
|
Linux guys look at the hoops that Windoze guys jump thru and say "WTF??".
|Until Linux is an over-the-counter established OS, I'll probably never switch.
|
Dell offers pre-installed Linux; HP too; Acer too...
It's time you came out of your dark hole into the sunlight.
...and the desktop is becoming an ever-tinier fraction of computing.
The majority of sales are mobile devices;
ARM is becoming the hardware platform and Linux is the software platform.
Windoze doesn't run on ARM.
Last I checked, Debian Linux supported 11 hardware architectures
(they've dropped some or the number would be higher).
Nokia's upcoming N900 phone is the wave of the future: A real Linux install.
Fully hackable. Want a Linux app on it? Download it and install. No sweat.
|It is an unknown. I am not going to experiment.
|
Spoken like a true Luddite.
Linux has been mainstream since at least Ubuntu 8.04 (April 2008).
|If I had an extra computer that I didn't care about, maybe then.
|
I recommend that folks put Linux on a separate drive.
One big reason for the separate drive
is that M$ is stupid and likes to nuke other OSes.
The inverse condition where Linux auto-demolishes Windoze installs?
You just never hear about that happening in the Linux forums.
The truth is that it doesn't take a separate computer to run Linux.
In fact, Linux does all the heavy lifting and sets up everything on your old box
--dual boot right beside your current OS.
...and like M$-centric Luddites everywhere,
apparently you aren't aware that you DON'T have to *install* Linux to try it.
UNLIKE M$'s low grade of junk
(which, INSTEAD of concentrating on MAKING IT EASY FOR THE USER,
concentrates on making it hard to pirate M$ wares),
almost all Linux CDs can be booted to a fully-functional Linux desktop.
There are also lots of non-Luddites
who have gotten tired of dealing with the weaknesses of Windoze and
the accompanying monthly chore and have installed Linux on their parents' boxes.
The parents can do all the stuff they used to do and have never missed a beat.
Some parents do it themselves. Again, no sweat.
from the Usenet Archive -- Linux Mint 6 is easy
--and that's not even the latest version (which is easier still).
...and there are hundreds of millions of schoolchildren
who don't seem to have a huge problem understanding Linux.
Mama used to call me a "food-foolish" because I'd say that I didn't like a food
--even though I'd never tasted it.
Same deal with M$ fanboyz and Linux.
|I suspect the same is true of many people
|- your "sales pitch" is far from convincing
|because it just sounds like you hate MS and nothing more.
|
The problem with M$ zealots is that they are usually ONLY aware of M$.
If they would peek out of their M$ caves now and then,
they would see the world as it is.
More and more countries and municipalities are mandating Free Software,
often for cost reasons but many for CONTROL reasons as well.
(Sending money offshore and being beholding to one corporation
is increasingly see as foolish.)
Open Source Software is often called Free(dom) Software.
Outside the English-speaking countries (USA, UK, AU),
Linux is especially growing by leaps and bounds.
OTOH, the USA-like countries are paying too much for their computing needs
(think: buying M$ licenses instead of increasing teachers' pay)
and those countries are slipping technologically
as their software developer communities remain mired in the past.
Corporations are moving to Linux as well (especially in these hard times).
Burlington Coat Factory and Ernie Ball, Inc.
have been off the Windoze treadmill all of this century.
|I think MS has made what most people want.
|
Right. Most people want single-source easily-infected systems.
|I think most are relatively satisfied with Windows.
|
Most people still use the same soap their mothers used on them.
The boiling-a-frog metaphor comes to mind here.
|I think many people hear people like you
|say "Windows Sucks" everytime something goes wrong.
|Can't tell you how many times I have heard people say that
|and had absolutely no basis for saying it.
|
Unlike you, some people have actually TRIED non-M$ products
and actually have a basis for comparison.
Not having to constantly worry about their OS getting infected
is what most folks are seeking.
Outside of that, OSes and productivity software are commodity items
(and FREE beats any other price in most folks' books).
Most folks are simply ignorant of their choices.
There is a move afoot in the EU to mandate a la carte price for computer sales;
when folks see FREE Linux beside $54 (or whatever) Windoze,
the choice will be obvious for most.
|They had XP and now have Vista.
|
This is a 98 forum. People who come here are running something
that is 10 years old and hasn't seen updates for over 3 years.
I'm sure the thought of having to buy all new hardware
to run new software isn't appealing for most folks either.
Linux offers something that is up to date and will run on old hardware
and it's FREE.
|They have some problem with, for example, setting up Windows Mail.
|
Horses for courses. Doesn't speak well of their ability to choose software.
Having all your data in a single file doesn't seem bright to me.
|Then they add how they never had that problem with Outlook Express.
|
I've seen an overwhelming number of folks with real problems
using what is by far the most-easily-infected mail client
--even more problems than is proportionate with that PoS's market share.
|Programs I have added to Windows are programs to make life easier for me.
|
Bet you paid for some of those.
Again: FREE Software--gratis AND libre aka Free(dom)ware.
Windoze guys have a really hard time wrapping their heads around that.
|I've probably added around 100 programs (maybe more).
|I am not married to Microsoft
|
...said the frog in the water whose temperature is steadily increasing.
When those apps are ported to platforms other than Windoze,
THEN you're not married to M$.
When you can use all those apps without installing them (Registry again),
and can carry a thumbdrive from box to box to do that, then we'll talk.
|The assortment of freeware for Windows is amazing
|
Free(dom) Software has that and more.
A lot of Free(dom) Software is also cross-platform;
it works the same when you switch between OSes.
...and again:
Getting/installing/updating Free Software apps using a Linux "package manager"
makes installing Windoze-compatible apps look completely brain-dead.
|and you can find a program for just about whatever you want.
|Can't say that about Linux or Mac.
|
Again, your knowledge of the Free Software ecosystem is woefully inadequate.
http://google.com/search?q=site:freshmeat.net/projects
Your Mac knowledge isn't even slightly impressive either.
1999 called and wants its tired old myths back.
|According to you, since Linux is so superior and basically free,
|
Not "basically"--TOTALLY free (Gratis AND Libre)
|there shouldn't be any Windows Operating Systems in Asia. Ha!
|
Not my position at all. There are some people who have to settle for 2nd-best.
There are still apps (dumb developers) that *only* run under real Windoze.
(The WINE project isn't 100.0% compliant quite yet.)
A monoculture of only Linux would not be a good thing either.
I do believe that of all the OSes that exist (mostly *n?x: BSD, Solaris, OS X...),
M$'s junk is the syphilitic old maid at the ball.
|Popping (the right) pills to get healthy or keep living
|sounds completely normal to me.
|
Truly a child of the late 20th Century.
|What is the alternative?
|
Eating right; reasonable excercise and sunlight exposure; avoiding carcinogens;
moderation in everything--y'know, the stuff your grandparents did.
|There is no way for a person to stay completely healthy
|without parts breaking down for an entire lifetime.
|
See "grandparents" (above).
The best route to a long healthy life is choosing your parents carefully.
|Obviously pills alone are not 100% the answer but they are a necessity.
|
Too often they are a crutch or a substitute for responsible behavior.
|There are no axe wounds in Windows.
|
I have linked here numerous times to the CERT advisory for IE.
Mixing data and instructions in memory is suicidal (can you say "buffer overflow"?).
(Win9x) not having user levels is just stupid (Unix had them in 1969).
(NT) Passing out root priviledges like candy to services is stupid.
That's for starters.
|The closest would be to just format and reinstall.
|
You just changed planets.
I'm talking about serious security flaws in the codebase.
Those need to be recoded.
Putting back a copy of Windoze with the same bad code won't cure anything.
WRT reinstalls, the Windows Registry makes reinstalls a huge pain
(see "making it hard to pirate M$ wares", above).
...and Unix has had a better way, again, since 1969.
|Or install your backup (if you have one, everyone should).
|
Cloning and restoring your drive
is an easy way to get back from a clueless-user-induced problem
--and cloning will also work for the OSes that are better than Windoze.
With Windoze, however, this is the ONLY **easy** way to get back to right.
Having to reinstall every one of your apps the traditional way under Windoze
can take DAYS.
To reinstall Linux (the OS AND all the apps that come on the distro CD)
takes less than 2 hours on a really slow box--and you don't have to babysit it
--and you don't have to reboot, reboot, reboot, reboot, reboot, reboot.
For another stark contrast, see "Linux package manager" (above).
(While app installs/updates are happening,
you can even **use** your Linux system.)
There really is no comparison.
...and this bootable toolkit (which includes Clonezilla)
is the easy way to do maintenance without paying for anything.
(Windoze certainly doesn't come with any such useful tools.)
http://google.com/search?q=%22+Parted.Magic
It replaces Partition Magic and Norton Ghost and has a scad of other great stuff:
cache
of http://partedmagic.com/programs.html
Do I really need to say that that is a Linux distro?
|
All messages in this thread [show all]
 | | | | | | | |  | re: Another serious blow delivered to the validity of EULAs (gewg_: Sat, Oct 17, 2009, 2:05 pm) |
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